IW @ Macomb

[illinois sports schwab]

IW coming off a big homecoming win over Monmouth Roseville and Macomb coming off of a nice win against PGP. Who will come out on top? I think it's very hard to go against IW right now, I think they win by a larger margin than expected, even though it's at Macomb.

IW 44
Macomb 14

[German/Irish_67_9]

Illini West - 56
Macomb - 8

[Lost Soul]

Illini West- 35
Macomb 14 Oh so many weapons for Illini West, but I hope Macomb plays them tough and makes this an interesting game. Tip of the cap to the Bombers for playing QND and now Illini West both this early in the season.

[fanofthegame]

IW coming off a big homecoming win over Monmouth Roseville and Macomb coming off of a nice win against PGP. Who will come out on top? I think it's very hard to go against IW right now, I think they win by a larger margin than expected, even though it's at Macomb.

IW 44
Macomb 14

I would fully expect IW to win by at least this margin. Too many weapons for the Bombers to stop

[illinois sports schwab]

I too hope Macomb plays IW tough. The IW starters need to play a full game, especially before the QND game. Last year the IW starters had the same problem, not being able to play a full game. It's one thing to actually play against a good team, but it's a whole other thing when you are still blowing those good teams out disallowing your starters to play the full game.

[broadcaster]

30-14 IW

Bombers are better than you think.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Hoping this is a great game. I might come scout out I-w in what will be their only test before the QND game. I'm undecided b/t this game and the Columbia Hickman at Hannibal game.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Correction, nevermind, i'm heading to Springfield to watch SHG whoop up on Rochester i hope.

[mrillinois]

Your better off going to either the Hannibal game or the SHG game.

I agree with broadcaster, I've seen Macomb and they are a pretty good team and should be able to give IW a pretty good game. I think that IW pulls away in the second half, but the Bombers will give them a battle.

[fanofthegame]

Correction, nevermind, i'm heading to Springfield to watch SHG whoop up on Rochester i hope.

I too am going to springfield tomorrow night to catch a glimpse of the Rockets. From what I hear they have replaced Shaun Robinson quite well. I expect that game to be a battle. I would stay closer to home if I thought Macomb could put up a fight long enough for me to gauge IW.

[illinois sports schwab]

I too am going to springfield tomorrow night to catch a glimpse of the Rockets. From what I hear they have replaced Shaun Robinson quite well. I expect that game to be a battle. I would stay closer to home if I thought Macomb could put up a fight long enough for me to gauge IW.

They have replaced Robinson with a junior by the name of Wes Lunt, the younger brother of former Rockets QB Will Lunt. Wes is very talented just like his brother was. Rochester is better than what people thought they would be this season after losing quite a bit.

[10&J]

I am out of town...ANY SCORES???

[10&J]

13-10 Rochester beat SHG. First conference lost after 60 wins in conference for SHG. Estimated 9,000 fans

[tiredoldman]

Macomb looses to IW 38-21.

[cussnu2]

38-21 vs 47-7

[10&J]

13-6 qhs loss via text.no details yet.

[cussnu2]

Quincy can't pass against them and Alleman stuffed the box. pretty much story of the game. Marold got his bell rung on the last drive of the game for qcy. Hope he is okay

[illinois sports schwab]

38-21 vs 47-7

QND beat Macomb at home. IW beat Macomb at Macomb. This is the 4th week into the season, which leads to me to think Macomb is playing atleast a little better than they were at the time of the QND game, plus that game probably made the Bombers better as well.

I'm not really trying to argue or prove anything, I'm just saying I don't think your comparison means anything. I don't think it's really proper to be making any assumptions or base anything off of anything until after October 1st. But things like this just adds to the buildup. Can't wait.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Quincy can't pass against them and Alleman stuffed the box. pretty much story of the game. Marold got his bell rung on the last drive of the game for qcy. Hope he is okay

Quincy can't pass in general. Mitch Marold - 2-8 31 yds passing 2 rushes for 6 yards. QHS fans will be upset yet again when they get sent to Chi-town to play a 1st round playoff game. Until QHS can beat some quality opponents, namely Rock Island, in the reg season they will never see a decent 1st round playoff pairing.

[German/Irish_67_9]

As far as the I-W/Macomb game.. i ended up getting held up in Qtown so i ventured to Macomb to see this game. First impressions... I-W is even smaller than i had heard. Macomb looked bigger. Their d-line can't average any higher than 175. Speed is there. Ser "the blur" Whitaker had 2 great scoring runs of 45+. He is the Real deal. Didn't get to see Schmud throw much though. If at all. Which bothers me. I-W's secondary is extremely vulnerable to the pass, especially short routes. Biggest weakness i saw tonight for the Chargers, the kickoff team. They let Macomb have 2 maybe 3 great returns to the 50 or further. If you let a decent team have that kind of field position you're bound to get burnt.

Macomb was solid on offense, driving the ball much better than expected. They always seem to play great ball after the QND game each year.

Much better game than expected nonetheless.

[bluefan73]

Macomb was solid on offense, driving the ball much better than expected.
Much better game than expected nonetheless.

Both true statements. IW starters played all but the last offensive series of the game. Schmudlach had 0 pass attempts. If you know anything about Coach Unruh, you know that's typical. He may come out passing next week.

[cussnu2]

QND beat Macomb at home. IW beat Macomb at Macomb. This is the 4th week into the season, which leads to me to think Macomb is playing atleast a little better than they were at the time of the QND game, plus that game probably made the Bombers better as well.

I'm not really trying to argue or prove anything, I'm just saying I don't think your comparison means anything. I don't think it's really proper to be making any assumptions or base anything off of anything until after October 1st. But things like this just adds to the buildup. Can't wait.

Here is the problem with your logic, the fly in your ointment, the hitch in your giddy up, the bur that should be under your saddle. Your stated logic is that Macomb is better because its week four BUT you fail to allow that it is also week four for IW and THEY should be better too AND one would have to presume that QND is better as well. So if they are all better in week four than they were in week two, that pretty much puts us back to where we started. IW won by 17 and had their first team scored upon multiple times by Macomb while against QND's first team defense they struggled to even get a first down in a 47-7 loss.

[bluefan73]

Do you REALLY think that improvement for football (or any athletic) teams is linear and equal across the board?


Here is the problem with your logic, the fly in your ointment, the hitch in your giddy up, the bur that should be under your saddle. Your stated logic is that Macomb is better because its week four BUT you fail to allow that it is also week four for IW and THEY should be better too AND one would have to presume that QND is better as well. So if they are all better in week four than they were in week two, that pretty much puts us back to where we started. IW won by 17 and had their first team scored upon multiple times by Macomb while against QND's first team defense they struggled to even get a first down in a 47-7 loss.

[guest07]

Do you REALLY think that improvement for football (or any athletic) teams is linear and equal across the board?

It's impossible to know, really. Which is why that type of logic doesn't work real well. I think that's Cussnu's point.

[fanofthegame]

Do you REALLY think that improvement for football (or any athletic) teams is linear and equal across the board?

It would be a nearly impossible sell to say Macomb improved more in two weeks than QND when the Raiders went on the road in week 3 and picked up what many believe to be the most impressive win in Bill Connell's career.

[bluefan73]

Because of the number of returning starters, I don't think the distance QND has to travel along the curve to reach their full potential is nearly as far as Macomb who has a lot of first year starters. The room for growth for Macomb is greater than the room for growth for QND. To put it another way, Macomb is a lot lower on their learning curve than QND is. Get it? QND didn't need to improve to beat Helias. I'd guess they were good enough in week 1 to beat this year's version.


It would be a nearly impossible sell to say Macomb improved more in two weeks than QND when the Raiders went on the road in week 3 and picked up what many believe to be the most impressive win in Bill Connell's career.

[fanofthegame]

Because of the number of returning starters, I don't think the distance QND has to travel along the curve to reach their full potential is nearly as far as Macomb who has a lot of first year starters. The room for growth for Macomb is greater than the room for growth for QND. To put it another way, Macomb is a lot lower on their learning curve than QND is. Get it? QND didn't need to improve to beat Helias. I'd guess they were good enough in week 1 to beat this year's version.

Did you see QND vs Hannibal in week 1? Hannibal turned the ball over a whopping 5 times and still pretty much kicked the **** out of QND until a fairly lucky last 2 minutes. QND had been outrushed by their opponents through 2 weeks. They had a LOT of room for improvement. The Raiders in fact, still have a lot of room for growth. Im not 100 percent sure, but Kramer's completion % this year cant be far over 50% and it was over 60% last year. As good as QND has been the offense hasn't clicked yet which is scary.

[bluefan73]

Hannibal is a good team. QND did what an experienced team will do...they kept their poise and came back and won. They were outrushed by Hannibal. The average after week 2 might still have been in favor of the opponents but Macomb had very little to do with that. I'm not sure what to believe...Weiman, Barnes, Bruns etc. are tearing other teams up (to the tune of 42 per game) which is what I'm reading after each game or "the offense hasn't clicked yet."


Did you see QND vs Hannibal in week 1? Hannibal turned the ball over a whopping 5 times and still pretty much kicked the **** out of QND until a fairly lucky last 2 minutes. QND had been outrushed by their opponents through 2 weeks. They had a LOT of room for improvement. The Raiders in fact, still have a lot of room for growth. Im not 100 percent sure, but Kramer's completion % this year cant be far over 50% and it was over 60% last year. As good as QND has been the offense hasn't clicked yet which is scary.

[fanofthegame]

Despite the points per game, they really havent fully clicked yet. I'm not trying to tell you they've been bad, this group just has such a ridiculously high ceiling. Kramer is at 49/93 on the season right now or just under 53%. I think last year he was at 62%. I'm not sure on what the stats were against PND last week, but he had also thrown at least 1 INT for the first 3 weeks. There had also been at least one PAT missed in each of the first 3 weeks. Weiman has only gone over 100 yards rushing twice. Granted, I am sure he would have last week given more playing time. I'm not trying to talk the guys down because they have been really good. I'm just pointing out that while they have been very good, I don't think they have necesarrily played at a championship level yet, and they are certainly capable of it.

Honestly, I just don't buy that Macomb improved that much in two weeks. It seems like every year QND kills Macomb early in the season, then Macomb runs off a string of wins against lesser opponents and then we hear how improved the Bombers are only to see them get bounced, usually rather handily early in the postseason. I could be wrong, but with the exception of last year, it seems that has been the pattern the last 5-7 years.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Honestly, I just don't buy that Macomb improved that much in two weeks. It seems like every year QND kills Macomb early in the season, then Macomb runs off a string of wins against lesser opponents and then we hear how improved the Bombers are only to see them get bounced, usually rather handily early in the postseason. I could be wrong, but with the exception of last year, it seems that has been the pattern the last 5-7 years.

Have to agree with you here.. Which is all fine and dandy for Macomb.. get your wins that's what counts..

Which brings up another question i've been stumbling over for a few years now.. What's stopping teams like I-W or Macomb from going out and claiming a high profile game? (outside of playing QND) The Raiders (heck even Hannibal) travel all over to see decent competition yet IW and Macomb never travel more than an hour off course. I know costs and such are an issue but still.. ONE decent road trip a year to play a higher caliber team?

All I have to say is I watched IW vs. Macomb.. The Macomb team I saw wasn't the same Macomb team that traveled to Quincy. Does that mean Macomb has blinders on each year when they play QND? Does it mean that they have mindset that sets the expectations lower? Maybe, I can't answer that. But I would have to think it's a big mind game for the Bombers in these situations. They know QND is who they are but IW is no different. Now why would Macomb seem to play harders, faster, stronger against IW rather than QND? Again, i'm clueless. Point is that either Macomb is that much better in two weeks or, once again, IW just isn't as great as advertised....

[guest07]

Have to agree with you here.. Which is all fine and dandy for Macomb.. get your wins that's what counts..

Which brings up another question i've been stumbling over for a few years now.. What's stopping teams like I-W or Macomb from going out and claiming a high profile game? (outside of playing QND) The Raiders (heck even Hannibal) travel all over to see decent competition yet IW and Macomb never travel more than an hour off course. I know costs and such are an issue but still.. ONE decent road trip a year to play a higher caliber team?



In IW's case, it would seem pretty pointless. They play the best of the best as they advance through the playoffs, and they seem to fare just fine. Furthermore, they pretty much know that there's going to be a spendy playoff run every year, so even ONE long regular season road trip would probaby make the budget difficult. And for all of QND's efforts to schedule top-caliber teams, it doesn't seem to get them over the top when the playoffs roll around.

I think playing a touch schedule is overrated.

[wolverine55]

I'm far from an IW apologist, but this game is the first year in a LONG time they've had an opening with the exception of the Rickover Academy game a few years ago. Don't be fooled by the IHSA page--a lot of those "nonconference" games in the WPT days were actually interdivision games and therefore arranged by the WPT Conference. The Rickover game was set up because of the late date--I don't believe anyone else had an opening for that particular week.

[Double E]

In IW's case, it would seem pretty pointless. They play the best of the best as they advance through the playoffs, and they seem to fare just fine. Furthermore, they pretty much know that there's going to be a spendy playoff run every year, so even ONE long regular season road trip would probaby make the budget difficult. And for all of QND's efforts to schedule top-caliber teams, it doesn't seem to get them over the top when the playoffs roll around.

I think playing a touch schedule is overrated.

IW knows that they will be playing schools the same size as them come post-season. QND is playing teams two classes larger than their actual enrollment. QND plays teams like Richwoods, Helias & Hannibal in order to be competitive in 4A. If IW played their typical schedule, and then had to play in 4A come post-season, the amount of success they've had would disappear quickly. That's not a knock on IW, but they'd have a hard time competing with the likes of Rochester or Metamora if they simply played a WCC schedule. QND would be no different. I applaud IW for scheduling QND. While my gut tells me QND rolls, I've learned never to underestimate any team, particularly one with the pedigree of Carthage/IW. But you'll never convince me that playing a tough schedule is overrated.

[guest07]

IW knows that they will be playing schools the same size as them come post-season. QND is playing teams two classes larger than their actual enrollment. QND plays teams like Richwoods, Helias & Hannibal in order to be competitive in 4A. If IW played their typical schedule, and then had to play in 4A come post-season, the amount of success they've had would disappear quickly. That's not a knock on IW, but they'd have a hard time competing with the likes of Rochester or Metamora if they simply played a WCC schedule. QND would be no different. I applaud IW for scheduling QND. While my gut tells me QND rolls, I've learned never to underestimate any team, particularly one with the pedigree of Carthage/IW. But you'll never convince me that playing a tough schedule is overrated.

Still in denial concerning the multiplier?

Likewise, you'll never convince me that playing a tough schedule makes much of a difference, until you show me some concrete evidence. For every team you show me that played a tough schedule and had playoff success, I will show you one that played a tough schedule and failed in the playoffs, and one that played an easy schedule and succeeded in the playoffs.

[Double E]

Still in denial concerning the multiplier?

Likewise, you'll never convince me that playing a tough schedule makes much of a difference, until you show me some concrete evidence. For every team you show me that played a tough schedule and had playoff success, I will show you one that played a tough schedule and failed in the playoffs, and one that played an easy schedule and succeeded in the playoffs.

Where in my post did I mention the multiplier? Did I compare privates vs. publics? Absolutely not., so why imply something that doesn't exist? I made a statement of fact about QND playing in a higher class and why they schedule larger schools. Nothing more, nothing less. why you have to turn it into something else is beyond me.

[PhotoGuy]

Where in my post did I mention the multiplier? Did I compare privates vs. publics? Absolutely not., so why imply something that doesn't exist? I made a statement of fact about QND playing in a higher class and why they schedule larger schools. Nothing more, nothing less. why you have to turn it into something else is beyond me.

Thank you for editing your post to meet the rules of the forum before I had to get involved. I get a copy of all the posts as they originally read via email.

The following is directed to the forum in general, not Double E. Please let's not get into yet another "multiplier" argument... if we want to see everybody's opinion on this, we can just use the search function. Thanks!

[guest07]

Where in my post did I mention the multiplier? Did I compare privates vs. publics? Absolutely not., so why imply something that doesn't exist? I made a statement of fact about QND playing in a higher class and why they schedule larger schools. Nothing more, nothing less. why you have to turn it into something else is beyond me.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but the following statement made it sound (to me) like you though QND had to play 2 classes larger than their own in the post-season. If that wasn't what you meant, then I apologize.



IW knows that they will be playing schools the same size as them come post-season. QND is playing teams two classes larger than their actual enrollment.

[German/Irish_67_9]

My fault for asking the question, guys. Didn't mean for it to cause any problems. I'm happy QND and IW are facing off. It should have happened sooner in my book. But I believe Double E was trying to say that playing Richwoods, Helias, etc is as close to playing Rochester, Metamora, etc in the playoffs as you can get in the regular season. Which I would agree with. And to say that a tough reg season schedule doesn't help your cause isn't anything I'm buying into. I believe the competition you play excels your program. QND is beating quality 5A and 6A programs each year now. I don't think IW could. Back not too long ago QND used to travel to Peoria and get stomped by the likes of Central or Manual. Now those are cupcakes for them. You tell me why for some reason QND jumped from playing and struggling with Pittsfield in the late 90's to now competing and beating schools like Richwoods, Helias, and a host of other above average teams in the state for some time now. Maybe it hasn't helped them win a 4A title but excuse me for believing that QND could have 5 or 6 3A titles (where they should be ;) ) but instead just make it to the 3rd or 4th round of the 4A playoffs. Quarterfinals is a solid season in 4A. Each of the last 4 or 5 years QND has lost in the 3rd round to BCC twice, Rochester, M-S, and BMD. 3 of which were ranked number 1 in 4A at the time and went on to play for titles. So again I'm just a believe that QND's schedule can only help them in the long run.

[guest07]

My fault for asking the question, guys. Didn't mean for it to cause any problems. I'm happy QND and IW are facing off. It should have happened sooner in my book. But I believe Double E was trying to say that playing Richwoods, Helias, etc is as close to playing Rochester, Metamora, etc in the playoffs as you can get in the regular season. Which I would agree with. And to say that a tough reg season schedule doesn't help your cause isn't anything I'm buying into. I believe the competition you play excels your program. QND is beating quality 5A and 6A programs each year now. I don't think IW could. Back not too long ago QND used to travel to Peoria and get stomped by the likes of Central or Manual. Now those are cupcakes for them. You tell me why for some reason QND jumped from playing and struggling with Pittsfield in the late 90's to now competing and beating schools like Richwoods, Helias, and a host of other above average teams in the state for some time now. Maybe it hasn't helped them win a 4A title but excuse me for believing that QND could have 5 or 6 3A titles (where they should be ;) ) but instead just make it to the 3rd or 4th round of the 4A playoffs. Quarterfinals is a solid season in 4A. Each of the last 4 or 5 years QND has lost in the 3rd round to BCC twice, Rochester, M-S, and BMD. 3 of which were ranked number 1 in 4A at the time and went on to play for titles. So again I'm just a believe that QND's schedule can only help them in the long run.

I think that Connell has built a terrific program. That's about all I'm going to say.

Illini West has played a really weak 1A and 2A schedule over the years, but it didn't stop them from competing and beating some of the best 3A teams in the state last year. I just don't see a connection. Illini West is competing for a state championship virtually every year. I don't see why they need to play a tougher schedule.

[TDogg11]

Even though Guest07 and I have had disagreements in the past Im in agreement with him on this. You play the hand you are dealt and Carthage, LaHarpe and IW have had success with it in the past and present. QND plays the hand they're dealt and has success also, just not quite as much. ;)

Dogg :D

[Double E]

Sorry if I misunderstood, but the following statement made it sound (to me) like you though QND had to play 2 classes larger than their own in the post-season. If that wasn't what you meant, then I apologize.

No need to apologize. I know we've had our disagreements in the past, but I really was just making the point that since QND plays larger schools in the post-season, they now try to schedule those type of schools during the regular season.

[cussnu2]

The real truth is the multiplier had zero effect on QNDs placement. They would have been in 4a under the football enrollment anyway because no Illinois teams their enrollment would play them. We were stuck playing the larger schools anyway. The only local schools with the guts to play QND near their size were Palmyra and Monroe City

[German/Irish_67_9]

The real truth is the multiplier had zero effect on QNDs placement. They would have been in 4a under the football enrollment anyway because no Illinois teams their enrollment would play them. We were stuck playing the larger schools anyway. The only local schools with the guts to play QND near their size were Palmyra and Monroe City

:confused:

[wolverine55]

Before the multiplier days, the IHSA would take the average enrollment of the opponents you played and compare it to the enrollment of your school. Whichever was bigger was your "football enrollment" and that number was used for your playoff placement.