The QND Five Man Rotation... Could Others Pull It Off?

[PhotoGuy]

I saw QND use a five player substitution last Friday night... something they regularly do, and I was wondering how many teams there are that are out there that could actually do this.

I am not even really talking athletically here... yes, there are not that many teams that are truely 10 deep on the bench... but I am more talking about how many teams, and how many coaches, could pull it off within the parent and fan base.

I know from personal experience how much pressure the parents, alumni and fans of a school put on coaches. I have seen several coaches "run out of town on a rail" for absolutely no good reason at all... the coach didn't play a certain important person's kid enough, or made somebody mad enough to run for the school board with the intention of ousting the coach, or some similar story. (By the way, as a newspaper reporter for more than 10 years, I want to advise everybody to NOT vote for candidates who are running to get somebody fired... even if you want the person out of your school. Once elected, these folks make AWFUL board members, they just sit there and do NOTHING for the kids...).

I think, at least in the smaller communities, it would take somebody with a coaching reputation like Scott Douglas to pull it off. Everybody knows him, they know that he is just about the best coach around, and somebody with his stature can do it. Dave Bennett of Pittsfield could have done it. Mike Fray in his day could have done it. Reno could do it. I am not sure a lot of our area coaches with less tenure and less track records could get it pulled off... even a guy who has had as much success as Brad Tomhave might get heat for it (although, to be fair, Tomhave would be nuts to do that with his current star player... Pittsfield doesn't improve with Hamilton sitting).

Am I nuts here? Do you think most coaches could pull it off, if the team won but if the starters (as a group) spent about half the game on the bench? You think the parents would let him get away with it? Again, this assumes that the schools were 10 deep like QND is... kind of a rhetorical question since that is pretty uncommon... or it assumes that everybody on the team is just about the same talent level.

[fanofthegame]

I don't even think QND can do it. I love Scott Douglas, but I don't like the 5 man rotations at all.

[Titanfan89]

Very, very hard to do in this day and age. It is hard enough to find a 10 deep rotation. The five in and five out is a rarity in the game now, unless you have two teams that are very unevenly matched and you can afford to do it or you have 10 really, really good players on your team. Just don't see it done consistently. Any in terms of QND doing it, I still think they are in the experimental stage of doing it, though those 10 players really are interchangeable from what I saw. But I'm sure Douglas wants those seniors out there when things get nitty gritty, such as Darnell and Rakers. The others maybe not so much.

[bballjunkie1]

The 3 times I have watched QND Douglas has gone with 10 guys, but not 5 at a time. His team in 04 was the same way, although in close games he usually only went 8 deep but kept Terwelp and Bocke on the floor a lot. It will be interesting how much subbing he does in the post season, it is easy to do when you are up 20.
I think Plattner could do it, but I dont think he has the personel right now. He will play about 9 guys now, but 2 of those guys probably only get 8 minutes a game.
Coach Rea at Payson in the only team I have watched that you could go 10 deep and not miss much at all. At times his second 5 is better than his starters.

[fanofthegame]

To add more to my comment earlier, I believe this weekend was the first time Douglas had used the 5 in 5 out strategy since the tip off tournament, and even then he didn't do it strictly on a 3.5 minute rotation. I don't like this strategy for a few reasons. The first is that I think QND only has 1 true ballhandler in Jake Darnell. When he is off the floor IMO they are very susceptible to being pressured and becoming turnover prone. The second is that IMO the second 5 lacks an explosive offensive weapon. In the first 5 you have Rakers, Keating, and Darnell who have all taken over games offensively in their careers. Guys like Cramsey, Doane, Barnes and Ufkes in the second 5 all do certain things well, but there isn't really a creator on the 2nd team offense. Lastly, if the other team has a true scorer like a Brad Hamilton, I want to take my chances gaurding him with either Conner Cramsey or Blake Doane for as many minutes as I can. With them both being in the second 5, they are both off of the court for long periods of time.

[allstarwannabe]

I don't think you improve if you are doing a 5 man rotation you only will play about 1/2 of a game. Don't like it.

[Titanfan89]

To add more to my comment earlier, I believe this weekend was the first time Douglas had used the 5 in 5 out strategy since the tip off tournament, and even then he didn't do it strictly on a 3.5 minute rotation. I don't like this strategy for a few reasons. The first is that I think QND only has 1 true ballhandler in Jake Darnell. When he is off the floor IMO they are very susceptible to being pressured and becoming turnover prone. The second is that IMO the second 5 lacks an explosive offensive weapon. In the first 5 you have Rakers, Keating, and Darnell who have all taken over games offensively in their careers. Guys like Cramsey, Doane, Barnes and Ufkes in the second 5 all do certain things well, but there isn't really a creator on the 2nd team offense. Lastly, if the other team has a true scorer like a Brad Hamilton, I want to take my chances gaurding him with either Conner Cramsey or Blake Doane for as many minutes as I can. With them both being in the second 5, they are both off of the court for long periods of time.

Maybe Douglas can mix up his units and balance them out to have more offensive balance between them. I agree that you want your defender on the best player whenever possible.