Good Bye, WCC? Not So Fast, My Friends...

[wolverine55]

Literally just a few minutes, Chris Duerr posted the following on Facebook:

"KHQA has confirmed that the West Central Conference has invited QND, Chillicothe IVC, and Canton to join the league for football only, effective 2013."

I'm sure a link will go up on their website soon and I'll post it if I see that as well.

[mrillinois]

This makes things very interesting, should be fun to see what happens.

[jarhead]

Wonder why Beardstown wasn't asked, aren't they a 3A school?

[guest07]

Is there any reason those teams would or wouldn't accept an invite?

[Qcyrunner]

Just FB? Why so limiting? Thumbs down! If I recall there are more sports offered by all these schools than just FB.

[Qcyrunner]

We're talking two seasons away. How could they not be able to swing conference affiliation for all sports? Is this that complicated?

[nobody]

http://www.whig.com/story/16653537/wcc-votes-to-extend-invitations-to-three-schools-including-qnd-for-football-membership

[nobody]

Wonder why Beardstown wasn't asked, aren't they a 3A school?

Didn't Beardstown get out of this conference a couple of years ago?

[wolverine55]

Qcyrunner, most conferences are based on football because of the number of co-ops and the fact the sport is hard to schedule because games are only available one of two days of the week--Friday or Saturday with the very rare Thursday mixed in--and of course the teams only play once a week.

[Qcyrunner]

Thanks Wolverine, My reply was more cynical as it's par for the course that we would worry about FB and not consider any other sports (what? There are other sports out there?). Very disappointing. Getting the chance to compete in conference tournaments is important to all sports participants, not just football.

[wolverine55]

From scanning other message boards this morning, popular opinion seems to be that IVC will decline, Canton will join because according to other newspapers their invite is for all sports...and no one seems to know what QND will do. Lots of factors for the Raiders to weigh in terms of location vs. competition, drop down in strength of schedule and still having open dates to fill, hard feelings from lack of invites in the past, etc. Obviously, all speculation but thought I'd share a summation of the other opinions I've read.

[Titanfan89]

Quincy Herald Whig reports that the invites are for football only for all those schools invited.

[wolverine55]

At least one paper disagrees with that, then. I'll see if I can find the link again.

[wolverine55]

http://www.mcdonoughvoice.com/sports/x1622355048/WCC-extends-invitations-to-three-schools?zc_p=0

I would consider Bartlett--Macomb's AD--and Bigley--Pittsfield's AD--both good sources...and they give quotes that seem to contradict in terms of Canton's offer. I'm sure it'll be cleared up shortly.

[Titanfan89]

Bigley also calling Canton a long shot to join.

[PhotoGuy]

On the one hand, as a Saukee fan, I would LOVE to get a game every year with QND on the turf.

On the other hand, for QND that would be a step down in competition (no offense intended, but those other schools are not in the class of QND's recent opponents, Hannibal, Helias, Richwoods, Peoria, Waterloo, Peoria ND, BCC, Geneseo, etc.) and their strength of schedule would be hammered.

I am guessing, absolutely a TOTAL guess on my part, that QND turns this down given their recent tendency (at least the last couple of years anyway) to schedule NCAA Division 1 teams to play (well, OK, not NCAA it just seems that way).

Remember, it wasn't but a couple years ago when everybody was all over QND about their schedule, how they played only "creampuffs" and how they were winning basically by default against teams with lesser programs.

I think those words stung in the front office of the athletic department, and whatever else you say about QND's last two years, the for SURE have not been scheduling easy games for football.

[guest07]

On the one hand, as a Saukee fan, I would LOVE to get a game every year with QND on the turf.

On the other hand, for QND that would be a step down in competition (no offense intended, but those other schools are not in the class of QND's recent opponents, Hannibal, Helias, Richwoods, Peoria, Waterloo, Peoria ND, BCC, Geneseo, etc.) and their strength of schedule would be hammered.

I am guessing, absolutely a TOTAL guess on my part, that QND turns this down given their recent tendency (at least the last couple of years anyway) to schedule NCAA Division 1 teams to play (well, OK, not NCAA it just seems that way).

Remember, it wasn't but a couple years ago when everybody was all over QND about their schedule, how they played only "creampuffs" and how they were winning basically by default against teams with lesser programs.

I think those words stung in the front office of the athletic department, and whatever else you say about QND's last two years, the for SURE have not been scheduling easy games for football.


IW used to get the same rap (scheduling creampuffs). Their response wasn't to increase the travel budget to play tougher regular-season games. They responded by winning state championships.

[Double E]

IW used to get the same rap (scheduling creampuffs). Their response wasn't to increase the travel budget to play tougher regular-season games. They responded by winning state championships.

IW also did not have to face schools like Rocherster, Mahomet-Seymour, Mater Dei, Driscoll, Metamora, Pontiac, BCC or Geneseo in the post-season. They were playing schools their own size. Big difference.

[Titanfan89]

QND was playing schools their own size, thats what you get for recruiting.:-) Now see you can be bad for a good period of time and get your multiplier waived for a year, then go down a class and win a state championship.

[bluefan73]

Thanks Wolverine, My reply was more cynical as it's par for the course that we would worry about FB and not consider any other sports (what? There are other sports out there?). Very disappointing. Getting the chance to compete in conference tournaments is important to all sports participants, not just football.

I thought the article did a good job of explaining this. The door is not closed to other sports, it is just more complicated and the immediate need is to sort out the football problem. If the WCC only has 5 members in 2013 they will not get an automatic qualifier to the playoffs. It's really not a conspiracy against the "lesser" sports.

[Titanfan89]

In addition, the WCC does not have a conference tournament for all sports either.

[Titanfan89]

Quincy Herald Whig is now reporting that QND has accepted the WCC offer to join the conference for football beginning in 2013.

[bluefan73]

IW also did not have to face schools like Rocherster, Mahomet-Seymour, Mater Dei, Driscoll, Metamora, Pontiac, BCC or Geneseo in the post-season. They were playing schools their own size. Big difference.

Your argument would carry a little more weight if several of the schools you mention weren't likewise multiplied. I think IW has always been towards the small end of their class. It's not like we're the biggest kid on the playground.

[guest07]

IW also did not have to face schools like Rocherster, Mahomet-Seymour, Mater Dei, Driscoll, Metamora, Pontiac, BCC or Geneseo in the post-season. They were playing schools their own size. Big difference.


IW played schools from their own class in the playoffs, just like QND did.

I also think they put that dog to rest by beating QND head-to-head.

[Double E]

Your argument would carry a little more weight if several of the schools you mention weren't likewise multiplied. I think IW has always been towards the small end of their class. It's not like we're the biggest kid on the playground.

Mater Dei, Driscoll and BCC are indeed multiplied. They are also (or "were" in Driscoll's case) all located in larger metro area's. Regardless, the vast majority of schools in 4A are considerably bigger than QND. That's why I thought playing in the MS6 made the most sense for them.

[bluefan73]

Mater Dei, Driscoll and BCC are indeed multiplied. They are also (or "were" in Driscoll's case) all located in larger metro area's. Regardless, the vast majority of schools in 4A are considerably bigger than QND. That's why I thought playing in the MS6 made the most sense for them.

I agree playing in the MS6 makes the most sense. I'm a little surprised they pulled the trigger so quickly on this decision (although I suppose it's not a totally "done deal" just yet, is it?). Is there any way the MS6 could sweeten the deal they have with QND, maybe ship a few middle school prospects to Quincy parochial schools? (kidding!)

[PhotoGuy]

The problem with the MS6 is the size of it. To make an effective football conference, you need more team than that IMHO. You really need at least 8 teams so you can get 7 conference games, that gives you a chance to play two non-conference teams to meet traditional rivalries or to play up in class for playoff purposes (Hannibal, Helias, Rock Bridge, etc.)

[wolverine55]

That's a good point. While QND has been successful with their scheduling, having to find four-five nonconference games every single year can be taxing and they may not always have the good fortune they've had recently of other top programs having coresponding open dates. Missouri is re-doing their scheduling and playoff process, correct? So, those Missouri teams they've been playing may not be available either. I totally agree that this conference would be a step down from what they have been playing. I take no offense to that, because it's just the nature of going from playing mostly 4A-6A schools to playing mostly 2A-3A schools. Something would be wrong if it wasn't a stepdown!

[bluefan73]

The problem with the MS6 is the size of it. To make an effective football conference, you need more team than that IMHO. You really need at least 8 teams so you can get 7 conference games, that gives you a chance to play two non-conference teams to meet traditional rivalries or to play up in class for playoff purposes (Hannibal, Helias, Rock Bridge, etc.)

The new WCC may or may not make it to 8 teams. QND knows the level of competition there (MS6) and have a real good idea what the level will be in the WCC. I think they've kind of been forced to make this decision because the MS6 may very well show them the door at some point leaving them with no affiliation again...and that's a whole lot worse than being in a conference with 6 or 7 teams, whoever they may be.

[Titanfan89]

Uh oh, now this could effect the WB6. Take a peek.

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x370666350/WB6-Mid-State-6-merger-talks-could-be-rekindled

[PhotoGuy]

Missouri is re-doing their scheduling and playoff process, correct? So, those Missouri teams they've been playing may not be available either.

Well, yes and no.

Missouri schools have been playing 10 games in the regular season, and this year, the way the playoffs are done, they will only play 9 with the 10th game being a "play in" game where top seed in the region plays the last seed, second seed plays the second to last seed, etc. Everybody makes the playoffs (like basketball) but the weak teams are blown out early (like basketball). Previously, with the old playoff system, the last three games were state-determined by geography, so you would play your final three games against whomever was close to you of your size, with no reguards for conferences.

So... for some teams, like the Clarence Canon, this means that there will be no non-conference games available, since they have 10 teams and 9 available games... everybody plays everybody.

For a team like Hannibal, playing in the NCMC, there are 7 teams in the conference which means 6 of their 9 will be conference games. They will still have to fill 3 non-conference slots.

For teams in the Tri-Rivers, which has only 6 teams in the conference, this means that a school like Scotland, Knox or North Shelby will have to fill four non-conference games on their schedule.

Etc.

[wolverine55]

Okay, I knew the gist of that but wasn't sure about the conference alignments. Connell said in his KHQA interview that he fully expects the relationship with Hannibal to continue:

http://www.connecttristates.com/sports/story.aspx?id=714970

[Double E]

IW played schools from their own class in the playoffs, just like QND did.

I also think they put that dog to rest by beating QND head-to-head.

Same class, not same size. Not sure why you seem to have a hard time understanding that.

[wolverine55]

Honestly, I'm just glad IW-QND are in the same conference now so this hostility between the two will actually make some sense! I've never understood why two schools that almost never played each other cared so much about what each other did or did not accomplish on the field!

[Qcyrunner]

Where's the "Like" tab????

[cussnu2]

Well, duh! Sure you would like it.....with the hope it gets expanded to all sports. Just from a football standpoint, I don't care for it other than the money it will save and the larger crowds it will bring.

[bluefan73]

Well, duh! Sure you would like it.....with the hope it gets expanded to all sports. Just from a football standpoint, I don't care for it other than the money it will save and the larger crowds it will bring.

I wouldn't count on the larger crowds. Most of QND's new opponents' fans will be about as likely to want to travel to 10th and Jackson to witness a beatdown as some of their current Peoria area opponents' fans.

[guest07]

I wouldn't count on the larger crowds. Most of QND's new opponents' fans will be about as likely to want to travel to 10th and Jackson to witness a beatdown as some of their current Peoria area opponents' fans.

I think you'd be surprised at how many fans make the trip to Fuzz Burgess every year.

[bluefan73]

I think you'd be surprised at how many fans make the trip to Fuzz Burgess every year.

I don't think so. I'm there every home game. Some games I don't think the opposing crowd even averages a parent per player. It's my opinion, based on personal observation. Take it for what it's worth.

[bluefan73]

Is it likely that declining enrollments will drop QND to 3A by 2013?

[mrillinois]

Same class, not same size. Not sure why you seem to have a hard time understanding that.

Look, there's no reason to get into this again. It's not our fault that QND has the multiplier to deal with, and it's not our fault that QND hasn't been able to beat the teams in the playoffs. I have a ton of respect for QND, and truly believe they should have won a state title a couple years ago but ran into Rochester in the quarters. I am excited that the Raiders have joined the WCC, if gives the conference another great name. This conference may have been down this past year, but I have a feeling that things are on the rise.

[Double E]

Look, there's no reason to get into this again. It's not our fault that QND has the multiplier to deal with, and it's not our fault that QND hasn't been able to beat the teams in the playoffs. I have a ton of respect for QND, and truly believe they should have won a state title a couple years ago but ran into Rochester in the quarters. I am excited that the Raiders have joined the WCC, if gives the conference another great name. This conference may have been down this past year, but I have a feeling that things are on the rise.

I'm not knocking the WCC, and IW certainly proved that a top 3A team can beat QND. My point has always been that if QND is going to play bigger teams in the post-season, it makes sense that they play bigger teams in the regular season. If IW suddenly had to play teams with enrollments twice their size, I'd suggest they beef up their schedule as well. That's the only point I'm making. The multiplier is what it is, and frankly, QND has proven to be one of the best 4A teams year in and year out (**** that Rochester!). But I also think one of the reasons why, is because QND plays the likes of Richwoods during the season.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Well.. as fun as all this is now.. this rivalry is going to get CRAZY come regular season 2013!!!!

A few thoughts...

-QND and IW/Carthage don't care too much for each other b/c IW has always been the smaller town, smaller school, and had tiny little boys on their squads yet they go win titles.. but seriously who gives credit to 1-3A.. that's a joke folks..

-QND to the WCC = step WAY down.. but, it's tougher and tougher for a program like QND to find quality opponents each year when the odds are they're going to go on the road and win.. thats a not exactly what many big name programs are looking for that sit in these large football dominant conferences. i.e. Mid-Illini, Corn-Belt, CSx, etc etc etc..

-Can anbody tell me why on earth West Hancock, Pittsfield, and Monmouth thought this was a good idea to add QND???? Are you nuts?!?!?! Talk about boring football 9 out of 10 years.. and those crowds will be larger simply b/c small town fans travel better than city folk.

-This needs to be for all sports.. although......nevermind

-IVC would be a good addition so you can all see where QND takes a bus to week in and week out in the past. Also, they're dang good in football most years.. and if not, they're decent. Top 5 most years.

-Canton is nuts to leave the Mid-Illini.. and, if you're unaware, the Little Purple Giants are about as good as WH in a good season.

-IW has never, and will never, play the likes of some of the talent QND has lined up against in recent history.. it takes 3 or more hands to count the teams that would beat IW most years (especially now that they're down in baby land playing 2A creampuff touch ball - lol again, joke).. and story goes Mahomet, Rochester, BCC, BMD, Richwoods, Woodruff, Bishop-McNamara, Geneseo, Hannibal, Helias.... should i keep going... eh, nah.. i'm tired of beating that bush for now..

Tootles, Go Raiders! Let the rivalry begin carChargers!! See ya in Qtown soon..

Oh, p.s. Lets try and get as large a crowd at the PGP/QND game as there was back in '97(ish) the last time these two met for varsity.. But, and a big but at that.. I don't want Photoguy to have a nervouse breakdown when he looks at the scoreboard that night so someone needs to watch him close.. I'll be sure and sound the airhorn if I see him charging our way.. ;) all in fun photoguy.. you run a great site and shoot some amazing photos.. mad props good sir..

[German/Irish_67_9]

Oh, p.p.s.

Illini West didn't beat QND... Ser Whitaker beat QND... fact

[remote]

Well.. as fun as all this is now.. this rivalry is going to get CRAZY come regular season 2013!!!!

A few thoughts...

-QND and IW/Carthage don't care too much for each other b/c IW has always been the smaller town, smaller school, and had tiny little boys on their squads yet they go win titles.. but seriously who gives credit to 1-3A.. that's a joke folks..

-QND to the WCC = step WAY down.. but, it's tougher and tougher for a program like QND to find quality opponents each year when the odds are they're going to go on the road and win.. thats a not exactly what many big name programs are looking for that sit in these large football dominant conferences. i.e. Mid-Illini, Corn-Belt, CSx, etc etc etc..

-Can anbody tell me why on earth West Hancock, Pittsfield, and Monmouth thought this was a good idea to add QND???? Are you nuts?!?!?! Talk about boring football 9 out of 10 years.. and those crowds will be larger simply b/c small town fans travel better than city folk.

-This needs to be for all sports.. although......nevermind

-IVC would be a good addition so you can all see where QND takes a bus to week in and week out in the past. Also, they're dang good in football most years.. and if not, they're decent. Top 5 most years.

-Canton is nuts to leave the Mid-Illini.. and, if you're unaware, the Little Purple Giants are about as good as WH in a good season.

-IW has never, and will never, play the likes of some of the talent QND has lined up against in recent history.. it takes 3 or more hands to count the teams that would beat IW most years (especially now that they're down in baby land playing 2A creampuff touch ball - lol again, joke).. and story goes Mahomet, Rochester, BCC, BMD, Richwoods, Woodruff, Bishop-McNamara, Geneseo, Hannibal, Helias.... should i keep going... eh, nah.. i'm tired of beating that bush for now..

Tootles, Go Raiders! Let the rivalry begin carChargers!! See ya in Qtown soon..

Oh, p.s. Lets try and get as large a crowd at the PGP/QND game as there was back in '97(ish) the last time these two met for varsity.. But, and a big but at that.. I don't want Photoguy to have a nervouse breakdown when he looks at the scoreboard that night so someone needs to watch him close.. I'll be sure and sound the airhorn if I see him charging our way.. ;) all in fun photoguy.. you run a great site and shoot some amazing photos.. mad props good sir..

GI, your post is good for a few chuckles, that's for sure.......but when it comes to travel, the trip to IVC will seem like normal for the remaining WCC teams......see also trips to Orion, Rockridge, and Sherrard, not to mention Princeton, Mendota, and Spring Valley Hall. Only difference is now it will be once every two years instead of a couple times every year......

[guest07]

GI, your post is good for a few chuckles, that's for sure.......but when it comes to travel, the trip to IVC will seem like normal for the remaining WCC teams......see also trips to Orion, Rockridge, and Sherrard, not to mention Princeton, Mendota, and Spring Valley Hall. Only difference is now it will be once every two years instead of a couple times every year......

Not to mention, almost yearly trips to Champaign for Illini West.

[mrillinois]

Oh, p.p.s.

Illini West didn't beat QND... Ser Whitaker beat QND... fact

Really? This again? IW beat QND, plain and simple.

[wolverine55]

Many of you have probably seen this in the print version of the Whig, but here is a slightly more detailed version of this story:

http://www.whig.com/story/16664842/qnd-one-hundred-percent-comfortable-with-wcc-decision

[German/Irish_67_9]

Good point remote.. I see where you're coming from but that was for 2 years or so.. It gets daunting nearly a decade into it. But lets be honest, the best thing to come of all this is renewing the ex-Prairie Trails conference matchup with Pittsfield.. maybe this will get their boys in the weightroom some more so they can actually compete.. kidding of course.

QND, IW, Macomb are all on an even level after last year.. QND is losing size quikcly, IW showed they may have found a rut, and Macomb is about as Macomb-like as they've always been.. poor starters great finishers..

oh.. p.s. Ser Whitaker stuns QND was a headline I read that next day.. sorry IW fans.. no one from QND will EVER believe you beat us without that boy running wild again.. he was a freak.. and single handedly stole a victory for you.. We know who won.. we aren't that dense..

[flyinhigh25]

Fact IW-2 QND-0
Football State Championships.

[flyinhigh25]

Football State Game Appearances:
QND:0
Carthage:9, 5(2nd) 4(1st)
Laharpe:2(2nd)
IW:2(1st)
which equals 13
13>0
IW>QND NOT EVEN CLOSE

[PhotoGuy]

Somebody just went on a 7 day holiday from TSF for not playing nicely with others. Posts have been removed.

Wise folks can take this hint.

[Qcyrunner]

I for one am looking forward to QND joining the WCC in more sports than just FB. FB presents the most scheduling concerns but hopefully some of the non-gate sports can jump in early with FB. One more team in Tennis, Golf, or XC cause virtually no scheduling issues for anyone. There's no reason to delay what should be the inevitable. 18 months should be enough time to figure it out.

[remote]

I for one am looking forward to QND joining the WCC in more sports than just FB. FB presents the most scheduling concerns but hopefully some of the non-gate sports can jump in early with FB. One more team in Tennis, Golf, or XC cause virtually no scheduling issues for anyone. There's no reason to delay what should be the inevitable. 18 months should be enough time to figure it out.

Not sure that QND being a full member of the WCC would change any scheduling? Most of the teams in the WCC already include QND on their schedule for sports such as Softball, Baseball, Volleyball, Wrestling, and Golf. For XC, only about half of the teams in the conference even offer the sport, and I'm guessing (don't know without doing some research) that the meets they host are few and that likely QND is already running with them. For soccer (Macomb and MonRose) and Tennis (Macomb), there is very limited participation in those sports by conference schools, so not much scheduleing help there. Most of the WCC schools are smaller schools and just don't have the number of good athletes nor the resources it takes to field a team in every possible sport.

[tiredoldman]

Macomb also has swimming

[Qcyrunner]

Sounds great! Let's git 'er done!

[wolverine55]

Kind of a random thought, but as this schedule will allow for three nonconference games, I really wish Iowa let their teams play out-of-state opponents. Now that IW has seemingly fallen back to Earth a bit and there also seems to be some good coaches in place at WH, Keokuk, Fort Madison, and Central Lee I think these teams and fans in this area of the tristates are really missing out on an opportunity for some good rivalry football!

[guest07]

Kind of a random thought, but as this schedule will allow for three nonconference games, I really wish Iowa let their teams play out-of-state opponents. Now that IW has seemingly fallen back to Earth a bit and there also seems to be some good coaches in place at WH, Keokuk, Fort Madison, and Central Lee I think these teams and fans in this area of the tristates are really missing out on an opportunity for some good rivalry football!

I definitely agree. Keokuk has a chance to be terrific next year. I think, in general, Iowa schools would be much more competetive in football than in basketball.

[German/Irish_67_9]

Kind of a random thought, but as this schedule will allow for three nonconference games, I really wish Iowa let their teams play out-of-state opponents. Now that IW has seemingly fallen back to Earth a bit and there also seems to be some good coaches in place at WH, Keokuk, Fort Madison, and Central Lee I think these teams and fans in this area of the tristates are really missing out on an opportunity for some good rivalry football!

"The school that shall remain nameless" used to play Iowa schools in football quite often.. Fort Madison and one other consistently each year as nonconf games.. Unless Iowa changed their rules those schools can play out of state opponents.

[wolverine55]

I'm pretty sure those rules have been changed. I've heard from Illinois coaches looking for games that Iowa schools aren't an option for the reason I mentioned above.